8.6.26 UWM Earnings; MSF’s Dawn Dawson on Mortgage Marketing; Ginnie Mae Custom Pools

Robbie ChrismanWelcome to the Chrisman Commentary, Daily Mortgage News Podcast. I'm your host, Robbie Chrisman. Topics on today's episode include Little Industry Mailbag. Why employment shift may impact rates? In my interview with mortgage solutions financials, Dawn Dawson on modern mortgage marketing. Here. Take a listen, do a little preview. Robbie ChrismanWhat makes great advertising? Dawn DawsonGreat advertising is when I move, touch, and inspire someone. Or if I catch their funny bum. But I've added an emotion to the brand, and the emotion actually takes over that portion of your brand. That's when I've truly won. Robbie ChrismanThanks to Figure for sponsoring this week's podcasts. Figure is shaking up the lending world with their five-day HELOC, offering borrower approvals in as little as five minutes and funding in five days. Figure has hundreds of partners in the banking, credit union, home improvement, and of course, IMB space embedding their technology. To learn more, visit Figure.com. Robbie ChrismanUWM Holdings Corporation, the publicly traded indirect parent of United Wholesale Mortgage, announced its results for the second quarter ended June 30th, 2026, and there was plenty for its critics to point out. It had originations of $39.7 billion in the second quarter of this year compared to $44.9 billion in the first quarter and $39.7 billion in the second quarter of 2025. Purchase originations were $23.8 billion, nicely up from $18.7 billion in the first quarter, but markedly down from $27.3 billion in the second quarter of 2025. Refinance originations were $15.9 billion in the second quarter compared to $26.3 billion in the first quarter and $12.4 billion in the second quarter of last year. Lenders around the industry took note that the company's board of directors suspended its quarterly dividend. The company also announced a $2.05 billion equity capital investment by Oak Tree Capital Management and SFS Group Capital LLC, a newly formed investment vehicle wholly owned by the SHBF family. The Oak Tree quote comes from its global opportunities group, the Distress Desk. It is the largest capital raise in mortgage industry history, and the proceeds are expected to be used primarily to pay down existing debt, repay MSR financing facilities, strengthen UWM's liquidity and equity base, and support general corporate purposes. $2 billion will go a long way, but it isn't without a cost. So UWM's purchase volume was $23.8 billion, down 13% in a market that grew. Redwood Trust's purchase volume, for example, doubled. Total volume was $39.7 billion, still a sizable portion of the industry, but was down $44.9 billion in the first quarter. And expenses were up 21%. So is UWM on the ropes? Nope. Is it prospering? Nope. It's a mixed bag and plenty of lenders and investors are doing better and worse. Matt HBA and UWM have their critics and they have plenty to talk about, but are you going to bet against them? U.S. Treasuries posted a third straight gain yesterday, pushing longer-term yields down to one-week lows as investors favored safe haven assets amid subdued global bond trading and mixed economic data, including stronger Eurozone services activity, but an unexpected slowdown in China's services sector. Gains held through a largely directionless session and were reinforced by falling oil prices, with crude settling at a three-week low below its 200-day moving average, helping support demand for treasuries. Ahead of tomorrow's release of the July payrolls report, the ADP Employment Change report pointed to the addition of 44,000 non-farm payrolls in July, well below 75,000 expectations and down from 95,000 in June. While the U.S. workforce has reached a record 162 million people, labor force participation has fallen to its lowest level, 61.5%, since the late 1970s, aside from during the pandemic. This is a structural shift that the headline unemployment rate increasingly obscures. Participation has steadily declined among younger workers, particularly those aged 25 to 34, while Americans aged 55 and older are remaining or are remaining in or re-entering the workforce at much higher rates than two decades ago. We're seeing a reshaping of the labor market in ways that extend well beyond monthly payroll and unemployment figures. For today's interview, I wanted to welcome to the show Mortgage Solutions Financial, Dawn Dawson, to talk about modern mortgage marketing. She's CMO at the company and has worked in advertising since 1992. That's the year I was born, and in mortgage with Mortgage Solutions Financial since 2000. She's defined the brand of Mortgage Solutions Financial over the years and has expanded its influence from a single branch to close to 100 branches during her tenure. Her expands across all media channels to include digital, social, and traditional. And her area of expertise lies in strategic future casting, identifying and implementing marketing trends prior to mainstream adoption, and strong brand positioning from the grassroots level to the top. Robbie ChrismanYour specialty is on the marketing side of the equation. And obviously, depending on a company, their marketing objectives are very different. And I don't even necessarily mean within the mortgage industry at this point. I mean if I'm marketing a charitable event or a conference, it's much different marketing than if I'm selling USB chargers. I don't know. Or you know, if I'm if I'm selling the solution in the mortgage servicing space. And so high level, let's talk mortgage marketing. Agnostic of if I'm on the origination side or the tech side or the servicing side. When we think about the the mortgage industry and marketing within the mortgage industry, where does your mind go? And maybe what do you love so much about it? Dawn DawsonFirst off, that is a super long purchase funnel, as is the car industry. That's a longer purchase funnel than maybe your average marketer or even your average business owner would look at. What I mean by that specifically right now is AI has entered this chat. And because AI has entered this chat, it's going to shift how marketing thinks I'm not just marketing to a human being. Now I've got to market to the human being's agent that's jumped over 30% just in the last 60 days of how many search engines now are carrying agents querying. So we have to we have to factor. I love this industry because we get people in homes and there is a tremendous amount of emotional attachment to that. It's also probably one of the coolest things about being a marketer is now I have an opportunity to be a part of that journey and their entire life cycle if we do it right. If we do it right. Otherwise, it's just a transaction. I got them in and out. Robbie ChrismanWhat are you running towards as a marketer? And what are you running away from as a marketer? And yeah, and I don't, I don't mean that like we're in therapy or something. I just mean what what are some good practices or technologies or operations? What are what are some things that you're like, that's not good marketing? Don't do that. Dawn DawsonWell, I'm running towards trust. I'm really running towards trust. I think we I think we are dealing with let's talk millennials just for a second. I don't want to get too much in the generational thing because all that's shifting quickly too. But generationally speaking, Henry's on our team. He's one of the marketing people on our team. He's amazing. Literally sat down and was sharing with me when that 08-09 bubble exploded on us. It was the first time in the history of the mortgage space that our integrity was questioned. And I think some of the lessons from that are lessons we need to continue with today. It's incumbent upon us never to lose trust with a client. And honestly, Robbie, that's what I'm running towards. I want to get closer. I want to have a relationship. I'm running away from AI when it doesn't make sense. And oh my gosh, we get in a rush or we panic. And then we use the tools, not for the best of the client. We use the tools for efficiency. And I think that's dangerous. And I think the level of accountability right now needs to be pretty high in the space of AI. Sure, we can, should we? And as long as that litmus test is there, we can answer that profoundly. Does this really help the client? Does this really help the business? Then yeah, I think we're on a good path. Robbie ChrismanYeah, the prevailing conversation has shifted from kind of human in the loop with AI to how do I build trust while incorporating AI? And those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. I assume AI will get better over time. And I don't know if it can learn empathy and those sorts, but it can certainly mimic it better and better over time. As a sociopath, I've been mimicking empathy better and better my whole life. That's a different discussion. Dawn DawsonYou and every other sociopath, so good for you. Robbie ChrismanYeah, takes one to know one. So thoughts on how to utilize technology to build trust without relying on it, which I think erodes trust, or without coming off impersonal, which also erodes trust. Dawn DawsonCreate experiences. Let AI and technology help us create those true experiences, but have the experiences be one-to-one as much as possible. So here's the here's this dichotomy, right? You pointed to it earlier. I'm going to come back to it. We're running as fast as we can to AI. At the same time, smart marketers are doing more live in-person events. We're getting more into the events. We're getting more into experiential. I think we're serving both needs there. As AI increases efficiency, it also isolates me more. I need those opportunities as a human to connect. And I think the brands that stay true to that really fits those brand DNA, that brand's DNA, I think those brands are going to have really big wins. Robbie ChrismanWe can now get into what you're doing at mortgage solutions financial and your specific marketing remit at the company. What's the ultimate goal through your marketing? Dawn DawsonManage pivots. This industry serves up a lot of that. MSF is a part of all of the pivots. Robbie ChrismanWe need to be what's up, I've never even heard of, I've been in the industry for a long time. I've never even heard of a pivot. What's a pivot? Dawn DawsonSo a brand pivot or a strategy pivot, companies are moving. So we just picked up servicing. That's new for us. We've only had that for what, two and a half, almost three years now. We're coming up on it. Maybe two, two and a half. I'm I'm exaggerating. So we've had to learn servicing, Robbie. And here's what's cool about servicing like we spend so much time closing the loan, but now we get to hang out with you. Like now we get to spend time with you. Now we get to be a part of that journey monthly. And I think that's an opportunity for marketers. So I'm learning that space. That for me is really going to be an opportunity. How do you handle a pivot? Robbie ChrismanSince it's so important, how does one handle a pivot? Is there an operational procedure you go through? Are you flying by the seat of our pants, throwing spaghetti at the wall? How's it? How's it work? Dawn DawsonAll of the above. I think anybody that tells you any different lies. Robbie ChrismanYou have spaghetti you throw at the wall, that's good. I like that. Dawn DawsonLet's not underestimate the power of spaghetti in a wall. I think all good marketers know how to pivot. I think good to great marketers develop that as a skill set. And pivoting, of course, you have a process. And of course, you're looking at specific measurables when you're moving through it. But I think the other thing about pivots is understanding that perfection's ridiculous. Like nobody's going to hit it. So get your 1.0 out there as quickly as you can. Do it as effectively as you can. Stay true to the DNA of your brand, which is starting with your core values. Our core values, number one, we have is connection. So whether I'm doing a purchase, refinance, staying within a VA loan, or I'm doing an FHA loan, or I'm doing servicing, or I'm talking to a client about refinancing, what's my number one connection is my number one core value. So I'm not going to let, I'm going to stay very true to I'm not going to let AI get in the way of communication with the client. If I have this opportunity, like I am with you, to be on a phone, then I'm going to prioritize that. Why? If trust is the new currency, and I suggest to you that it is, trust is truly the new currency in social and digital, in marketing, then if that is true, engagement, convergence, while important, should take a back seat. And that is a tough, tough thing to sell to a board of directors. But I think it's important. Robbie ChrismanWhat have you learned over your multi-decade career? Or maybe put differently, what do you wish you could tell young Dawn about marketing that maybe she she had to learn the hard way? Dawn DawsonWhat would I tell young Dawn? Curiosity and uh being nosy are superpowers and don't ignore them. Seriously. All right. And I think the biggest one if all advertising works, just throw that out there. Just all advertising works. What makes great advertising? And stay open to that because that shifts. Stay open to that. Robbie ChrismanSo you are not only curious and not only nosy, but do you also run a podcast? Much like I run this podcast today. I will let you ask one question of me. AMA. Ask me what would you like to put on your podcast host out? Ask a question out of curiosity and nosiness. Dawn DawsonOh my goodness. All right. You could have done anything. Why this? Why now? Why mortgage? Robbie ChrismanI will answer it in the spirit that you've answered all questions this interview, succinctly. Nepotism. No, I I think that it wasn't it wasn't my first career. My first career was racing bicycles in Europe. And I always kind of poo-pooed the mortgage industry. And even after I got into it and I I rose to director of capital markets at SoFi, I eschewed going to conferences and building relationships, and I didn't quite buy into it in the sense of I wasn't investing myself in ways that benefited me or the company I was working for or whatever it might be. And I think that some of that was because I felt like not an imposter, but a you're just here because of your dad. And so I've tried to be very cognizant of not forcing myself on people. It's nice to ask the questions and learn from others rather than try and act like you really have something to say. I like the organic nature of what we're building here, but I I didn't necessarily choose the mortgage industry. I remember coming back from Europe and I just wanted to disappear. I had to die an ego death of not racing bicycles. And so I wanted to disappear. And SoFi actually reached out to me because I'd done some internships in mortgage banking, and they knew my father, and and so it was a great door to be opened, and I followed it and go with the flow state, and here we are today. And I should say, too, not to sound not to sound contrived, but it's a great industry. There's amazing people, there's a ton of different types of people. We have the goal putting people into homes. We're trying to further the American economy. And I love what I do on a day-to-day basis now, in terms of being able to talk to a lot of different people, being able to grow, what's a very credible and and well-respected institution in Christman, and uh being able to go around the nation and meet a lot of different types of people. So uh feel very fortunate to be here today. Dawn DawsonFollow-up question, you have to let me. So, what are we doing wrong? What's the mortgage industry doing wrong? What can we do better? Robbie ChrismanI think that right now people are blindly trusting AI or throwing AI at everything in their lives, thinking, well, if I'm an early adopter, then I will shake out ahead. And we need to remember that people, as in the general American public, at this point has a pretty good BS meter for what's AI and what's not. And I believe that the pendulum is swinging back toward let me talk, let me deal with the human, let me deal with an email that an actual human composed. Much like automated calling in the early 2000s or or whatever, automated calling sounded great, but the after a while I just wanted to hit zero and zero and zero and talk to a person. And I think we're there with AI. So this will shake out properly over time. Don, I'm not letting you ask any more questions. I'm reclaiming host. Pleasure talking to you as always. Hopefully, we will meet up at a conference or or something soon. Uh, and and I really appreciate the time. You as well. Robbie ChrismanGinnie Mae custom pools have evolved from a niche product into a significant segment of the agency mortgage-backed security market, now representing roughly one quarter of outstanding Ginny May balances as investors increasingly favor customized pools that offer more predictable prepayment characteristics and greater value than generic multi-issuer pools. Driven by strong issuance growth and the ability to tailor exposures, such as concentrating slower paying borrowers or specific loan types, custom pools are reshaping pooling and investment strategies, mirroring the earlier rise of specified pools in the conventional market, despite remaining outside the major MBS index and ineligible for TBA delivery. Today's economic calendar is already underway. U.S.-based employers announced 33,000 job cuts in July, down 26% from the 46,000 cuts announced in June, and down 46% from the 62,000 layoff plans announced in the same month last year, according, or and that marks the lowest total in two years per global outplacement and executive coaching firm Challenger Gray and Christmas. We've also received preliminary Q2 productivity up 1.4% and preliminary Q2 unit labor costs, as well as weekly initial claims in at 199,000 and continuing claims. Later today brings June wholesale inventories expected to be unchanged from the prior month of 0.3%. And after this initial salvo of news, agency mortgage backed securities at a little change from Wednesday is closed, the two years yielding 4.21 and the 10 years yielding 4.64 after closing yesterday at 4.62%. Let's wrap up with a joke and some housekeeping. Two Irish nuns have just arrived in the USA by boat, and one says to the other, I hear that the people in this country actually eat dogs. Odd, her companion replies. But if we shall live in America, we might as well do the Americans or do as the Americans do. Nodding emphatically, the mother superior points to a hot dog vendor and they both walk toward the cart. Two dogs, please, says one. The vendor is only too pleased to oblige, and he wraps both hot dogs in foil and hands them over the counter. Excited, the nuns hurry over to a bench and begin to unwrap their dogs. The mother superior is the first to open hers. She begins to blush and then staring at it for a moment, leans over to the other nun and whispers cautiously, What part did you get? Robbie ChrismanThanks to Figure for sponsoring this week's podcasts. Figure is shaking up the lending world with their five-day HELOC, offering borrower approvals in as little as five minutes and funding in five days. Figure has hundreds of partners in the banking, credit union, home improvement, and of course IMB space embedding their technology. To learn more, visit figure.com.